Comments on Pixel Poppers: Pretending to Rock: Fake, Artificial, and Valuable...

@Partial Charge: @Anonymous: The vocal and drum g...

2010-04-07T12:13:25.821-07:00

@Partial Charge:
@Anonymous:

The vocal and drum gameplay already in these games does, at the very least, approach the real. And guitar gameplay is headed that way as well, though it's hard to say how long it will take it to really get there.

To me, the interesting part is that as gameplay approaches the real, the game approaches becoming a learning tool rather than an end in itself. I have fun pretending to play the guitar in Rock Band, but when I think of more realistic guitar gameplay, what excites me about it is the prospect of learning to play a real guitar.

Which is something I could already do, of course. I actually have a decent guitar gathering dust in the corner of my bedroom. The problem, as Alex Rigopulos pointed out in the quote I pulled, is how much time must be poured into practicing before it becomes rewarding. Learning in the form of a game would smooth out the curve and make it much easier to maintain motivation. That's what I'm looking forward to.

The point about Rock Band and Guitar Hero is an in...

2010-04-07T02:54:06.646-07:00

The point about Rock Band and Guitar Hero is an interesting one. They sit at the border between Artificial and Fake achievement.

However, if you think about it, it would be entirely possible to make MIDI interface instruments (which cover the full range of notes possible on the instrument). Couple that with a game which uses them, and you could quite possibly teach people to play a real instrument while also letting them play a game.

While making full MIDI-capable instruments would be a bit hard, a simpler starting point would be using a microphone plugged into a sound card and a game which scores you on how well your performance compares to a reference one stored in the game, factoring into account the difference in pitch of the player's voice compared to the reference one.

Such a game would blur the line between Real and Artificial achievement, rather than Artificial and Fake achievement.

I mostly hate RPGs for the same reason you stopped...

2010-03-01T21:14:45.601-08:00

I mostly hate RPGs for the same reason you stopped playing. It's repetitive in its gameplay, and I'm seeking games that can be based on my reflexes or brain (Toribash, Quake3, SFIII3, O2jam: all time faves).

But you're ommiting a detail on which I could write a book: humans have different approaches over life, and different ways to think, hence, feel satified.

The Herrmann theory of brain dominance includes, for instance, a 'sequencial' way of thinking and learning. Sequential thinkers are said to prefer repetitive activitie, time management, schedules... utterly boring for us since we, gamers, are attracted to challenge.

Real life is different, and what you called fake achievements can actually seen in life. It's not a matter of tapping a button, neither it is a matter of what the game will make you learn. It's a game.

I hate MMORPG. I hate being smitten to smithereens by a dude whose only effort has been to invest time in it.

But think about it. How many people do jobs that mainly require to invest time in it? We actually do need people who like repetitive tasks.
Will you think "how can this accountant can be paid in the end of the month?".
I take it you won't.

Given, micro-rewarding doesn't work for everybody.Especially in learning.
But then again nothing does...

@Doctor Professor I'm interested to hear what you...

2010-02-09T17:46:55.191-08:00

@Doctor Professor

I'm interested to hear what you have to say about the drum and vocal gameplay in Guitar Hero's younger brother, Rock Band. I think you make a sensible point about guitar play edging close to dangerous cognitive territory, but when you drum on Rock Band your playing a sort of beginner's drums set and when you sing you're, you know... singing. (Although it should be said that the way the game scores your performance--binarily note-by-note with a pass/fail grade for the entire song--pushes even these modes of play into a potentially gray area.)

I'm particularly interested in the drums since, as you well know, I actually got so pumped up playing RB drums that I went out and purchased a real kit. Perhaps even more interestingly, I was able to play, just a little bit but for realz, the very first time I ever sat down behind some actual skins thanks to Rock Band. It was incredibly empowering. (And certainly made the $300+ purchase of the real thing much easier to swallow.)

What I want to know, but won't get to until it happens, of course, is whether the guitar gameplay is headed that way as well. There have been hints, but only time will tell the whole story. Any personal opinions?

@uhzHiro
I think you make a good point about the (non)difference between "artificial achievement" as outlined in the essay and what people mean when they just say "achievement." That semantic bobble aside, though, I generally found this post to be a valuable and thought-provoking extension of the original. It felt less like covering tracks and more like digging into the same ground.

I don't understand why you go to the trouble of de...

2010-02-09T12:59:07.332-08:00

I don't understand why you go to the trouble of defining and explaining achievement as artificial. An achievement as we define it is inherently subjective, every achievement is man made, because it's just a concept.

Becoming president isn't a more valuable achievement than beating final fantasy 1 to a 7 year old.

I understand you defining and separating fake achievement, but artificial achievement is just... achievement.

Have I used the word enough for it to have lost meaning? Good.

Also - the warm fuzzy conclusion about self awareness is not comforting to parents. Not that I am one, but I've given it some thought, and children do not do introspection. So the structure of video games in their formative years can effect them for life, and that's why your fake achievement article was a winner.

You don't need to cover your tracks dude, explore a new topic.

Well, I'm glad you cleared up some of the points f...

2010-02-08T15:31:59.280-08:00

Well, I'm glad you cleared up some of the points from your fake achievement essay. It was through that one that I discovered your site in the first place, and it was not on good terms at the time.

A great read as always. I'll try to be more consci...

2010-02-08T12:59:50.137-08:00

A great read as always. I'll try to be more conscience of both my gaming and my real-life achievements.